Transcript

Sigrun:
You’re listening to the Sigrun Show, Episode Number 409. In this episode, I talk to Sami Wunder about how to be successful in love and business at the same time. Welcome to the Sigrun Show. I’m your host Sigrun, creator of Somba, the MBA program for online entrepreneurs. With each episode, I’ll share with you inspiring case studies and interviews to help you achieve your dreams and turn your passion into profit. Thank you for spending time with me today.
Building an online business takes time. I share with you proven strategies to help you get there faster. You’ll also learn how to master your mindset, uplevel your marketing and succeed with masterminds. Today, I speak with Sami Wunder she is a leading relationship expert and helps ambitious high achieving women attract lasting romantic love. The clients range from Hollywood celebrities, to renowned authors and CEOs as it regularly appears in the Business Insider, Forbes and Times Magazine. In this episode, we talk about how to be successful in love and business at the same time.
Before we dive in, let me tell you about my upcoming Planning Workshop next week. Are you ready to set your goals and map out your vision for 2021? I know 2020 has been weird. But 2021 is just around the corner. And if you really want to achieve your goals next year, you need to have a plan and not just any type of a plan, a solid plan for your sales, your marketing, your launches, a proper budget, vision strategy, execution measurement, the whole shebang. I’ve been teaching planning since the very day I started my business. And I have a special, fast, fun process.
And before you know it, before end of the day, you have created your plan. It will feel easy, fun and perfect for you. So go to the show notes at sigrun.com/409 and sign up for the planning day. Plus, in the show notes, you’ll find all the links to Sami Wunder. I’m so excited to be here with Sami Wunder and talk about how to be successful in love and business at the same time. Welcome to the show, Sami.
Sami Wunder:
Thank you for having me Sigrun, so lovely to connect again.
Sigrun:
Wonderful. You know, you are in Europe. And it’s such an exception to record a podcast interview actually in the morning and in my timezone and not late in the afternoon, because I have so many guests from the other side of the world. So Sami, where are you based?
Sami Wunder:
I am based in Bonn in Germany.
Sigrun:
Yeah, but your business is in English.
Sami Wunder:
My business is in English, and my 90 percentage clientele is from the United States of America. So I’m serving right now over 40 countries. And primarily, we’re serving internationally in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. So very exciting. And yes, I don’t serve in the German language at all.
Sigrun:
Oh, that’s… well, I think it’s great to find someone else who is in a German speaking area and working in English. So I have found a new friend.
Sami Wunder:
Yay.
Sigrun:
Yay. So before we dive exactly into the topic of this episode, I am always curious about my guests and how to they got to the place where they are today. And how has the love topic and dating and relationships become your topic? How far do we need to go back?
Sami Wunder:
10 years.
Sigrun:
10 years, okay.
Sami Wunder:
So 10 years ago, I was in university, finishing my master’s and dating in Germany, which is a foreign culture, which was back then a foreign culture for me. I did not speak the language very well. Today I do, but back then I did not. And I was a young woman and I wanted to have a family and I wanted to have children. And it was a very clear desire of mine that I wanted to have both. I wanted to be smart, successful, and I wanted to have love in my life. And so I started dating and I think as many high achieving women would relate, it was a disaster. It made me want to pull out my hair because I for my life if I couldn’t understand why things wouldn’t move forward with the right guys for me.
Every woman deep inside her heart knows that she deserves a match for who she is. If you’re smart, you’re successful, you’ve invested in your education, you’ve invested in becoming, and having a bright mind, and in reading books, then you also want to have a man who’s a match for that level of person that you have become. And so with these men, it was always a disaster. Firstly, it was hard to get asked out explicitly, so they were always hand dropping, and everything, but they wouldn’t ask you out. And then you had to ask yourself, so should I ask him out? Like, he looks interested, but why doesn’t he asked me out? What should I do?
So first, that was there, that hurdle there. Then the second hurdle was, if they did ask you out, then you would end up on the date, and then it would start to feel a lot like friendship, and it would like… you’d really get along, but at the end of the date, you would split the bill. And then again, there was confusion around who is supposed to ask out who again, and like, why does it like… It was so confusing. The dating experience was so confusing. And I think all of this was just the beginning Of hurdles. But when I really got to know a few men, who I really had an interest in, and who I felt were good men, worthy of a match, it would always fizzle out at some point. So three months in, five months in, the guy would stop feeling it for me, or he would love the person I am but not like, be in love with me. It was a nightmare.
And I think as always, I tell my clients Sigrun that our biggest point of pain in life often becomes our biggest point of transformation, it’s walking through pain that the door to the biggest healing and transformation happens. So for me, that trigger point was a man that I thought was the one for me, two months in, everything was going well. I actually… we were speaking about marriage, we were speaking about being together forever. And then suddenly, two months in, he’s like, “You know what? I think we’ve gone in too fast. And I am not sure about this anymore. You’re a great person, but I’m not sure if this is going to work out in the future.”
And I remember sitting there in my apartment in Berlin with my tissue box at 2:00 AM, eating ice cream, and just crying it out. But also deciding at that point that it’s never going to happen to me again, ever. So I’m never going to allow myself to be in that place again. Because not only was it heartbreaking, I think at some level, it also feels humiliating to go through those experiences again and again.
And then, because I’ve always been a good student, whatever I decide to put my mind into, and really master, I believe I do master. And so I decided that I had to understand what was going on that was making it so hard for a reasonably intelligent, good looking sensitive, nice woman. Like there’s nothing wrong with me. I wasn’t a mean person or I wasn’t ugly, what was going on? There had to be something I wanted, that I was not able to understand that I wanted to crack the code to.
So long story short, I believe I cracked the code. I went writing, I was largely self taught, understood the differences between men and women biologically. It’s not just about equality, equality is great, but there are just biological differences between men and women, when you talk about how attraction happens between women and men inside of a romantic equation. I understood that our relationships with another person can only go as deep as the love we have for ourselves.
And I understood that it was not just about superficial dating, and how to text him, and how to seduce him advice that the internet is full of, it had so much to do with me not embracing my feminine side, me only being in my masculine side, always pushing, always like just this bulldozer energy which has got me great success to my studies, now in my business, but the connection with my feminine side was missing. And all of that was such an amazing, transformative journey for me to go on.
I met and attracted my husband within nine months of doing the work. And I remember all my German girlfriends telling me, “Oh, he’s not going to propose. They take a lot of time to make up their minds. You’ll have to date for 10 years before he’s going to think about commitment.” And I was like, “No, I’m going to do it my way. I refuse to be his girlfriend.” I said, “You know what? I come originally from India. And in my culture, we don’t introduce boyfriends, we introduce fiances, we introduce the person who says you’re going to be his wife.”
And so I did it without having a boyfriend in Germany. I wasn’t sleeping around. I was just keeping my options open. And I told myself, may the best man win. And the best man won. And my husband is German. He didn’t take 10 years to decide whether he wanted to marry me or not, and I [inaudible 00:10:03]. Now we’re now seven years, going into our eighth year, happily married, two children. And so that was the personal side of the story. And I think the professional side of the story Sigrun was that, after Chris and I got married, I left my job at the International Labor Organization in Geneva. I was working in Switzerland back then [crosstalk 00:10:24].
Sigrun:
Of course, that’s our connection.
Sami Wunder:
What? So I left my job there, I moved to Berlin. And then Chris got a really good job at the International Space Agency in Paris. And so we decided it was time to move to Paris. So we lived two years in Paris, he had a great job there. And that is when I was left in another new foreign country, not knowing the language. I did not want to start learning French in an advanced format, because I was learning German then. And I was like, “I’m going to go nuts if I try to do French and German coming from India. And I would rather just master German and get good at German because my in laws are German. And I started to see Germany as home,” you know, it was my second home now.
And so I was like, “What am I going to do now?” And there was this initial phase where I was so relieved and so happy to just be home. But after those initial five, six weeks, it started to get really hard to just sit and wait for Chris to come back home and then eat dinner together, and not have anything to do but to like, watch the Eiffel Tower and go to the Louvre. I was like, “No, I have too much brains, I have too much of a skill, I cannot let this just sit there and let it go.”
And so I think the two things came together, I asked myself, “What are you really good at? What have you mastered? And what do you see people struggling with?” So I wasn’t the only woman… This is now when things started to really come together. I wasn’t the only woman in my cohort struggling with men. All my girlfriends were. They were all either not in relationships, or in miserable relationships. And we were all each other’s advisors. And we all gave each other really horrible advice. Before I started to do this work on myself, and then I realized I had started to become sort of the leader of the pack, and really told them, “You know, I wouldn’t call him, I would just relax, he would call if he’s interested.”
You know, I started to tell them these things. And it started to work for them. And then I was like, “You know what? You’re surrounded by women who have PhDs, who are smart, who are doctors, who are attorneys. And these women are having a really hard time in their love lives. And you know, you have found something there, you have landed upon some secrets that have really shifted your entire love and dating experience. What if you actually started advising people on this? And what if you charged for it?” So that’s how the Sami Wunder business was born.
It was actually born in 2016, Sigrun. So we started with our first year, it was the first six figure year. The second year was a multiple six figures year, and the third year, we became a seven figure company. And now we’re on our way to becoming a multi seven figure company. And I can tell you that it’s… I mean, you’re the woman, you’re the guru for teaching how women should walk on this path, right? So I can just say that there is nothing as fulfilling as having found your purpose on this planet.
And I think you would know it that there is no way someone can build such a successful company, and attract so much abundance, unless they were helping their clients really get results. And I think that is the foundation of all we do at Sami Wunder, which is we are really result oriented. We’re not just about, love yourself and have boundaries. I think that’s amazing. But we’re here to help women get really targeted results in their love lives. Like move from dating, to relationship, to the ring, to the happy marriage. And you can see some women behind me, these are my clients and I get invited to weddings all the time. And right now we’re at 192 client engagements. So I’ve helped 192 women find their happily ever after in the last four and a half years. So-
Sigrun:
Oh, that’s beautiful. I love that story and the whole background, your why and how it all happened. It’s so organic in a way but also a lot of hard work and passion behind it.
Sami Wunder:
Absolutely. You know, I remember when you talk about hard work, because I think a lot of people see success and then just think, “Oh, she wouldn’t know what it means to start a business and to not have any money or to not have your family support you.” So I think I would just like to add a little bit that, as a student back then I had like what? 10 or 12,000 euros savings in my bank account and I invested 8000 euros, straight up to get my coaching certification. Because it’s one thing to have your process and to know you’ve hit a [inaudible 00:15:06] quit. But it’s another thing, at least in my opinion. And that’s why I really believe that training and coaching counts.
I think it’s another thing to be able to coach people, it’s another level of skill to be able to listen to someone, to be able to understand what they need. And so I went through formal training and education, and I put my entire, like 8000 euros of my savings straight up, and I bet on myself. So I did not have more money than that. Yeah, that was all that I had and to spend, like, what? 70%, 80% of all your savings at that age, on learning how to be a coach. So I do know what it feels like to have nothing and to start from nothing, and to build that.
And then I think at a second level, what I can say is that when my company started really taking off, and we had our first six figure year, I was pregnant, and then my baby came into the world. And so there was sometimes… I still remember, I don’t do it anymore. I can’t do it anymore. I don’t want to do it anymore. But back then, I was breastfeeding at night. And then I would pick up my phone and I would help a client. Yeah. I don’t know if I’m proud of it today. Today I take much better care of myself. But back then, I was like, “You know what? I’m awake anyway. Might as well help someone,” right? So that was the level of desire to support people and to build a company that is actually making a difference in the world.
So yes, it is not an overnight magic. It’s taken hard work to get here. Thankfully, now, with my second baby who’s just two months old right now, really small, I’m still breastfeeding. Thanks to my work, I get to now afford a night nanny, not every day. But as often as she can come, she’s quite a diva herself. But as often she can come. You know, I really respect the rest of my body needs. I don’t have to push so hard anymore. But it’s taken work. And it’s taken time to get here.
Sigrun:
Absolutely. And I do think that’s something that people need to remember as they are in their first or second year of business. That’s not the time to relax, you can relax later on. But everyone will have to go to those initial years with a little bit more hard work.
Sami Wunder:
Absolutely. So this whole thing about, just chill and relax. And I think it-
Sigrun:
Just be somebody and magic will happen. No, you actually have to do something for it.
Sami Wunder:
You have to work for it. And it doesn’t mean you have to kill yourself for it. So there’s always… that’s why I’m saying I’m not very proud of the fact that I was doing breastfeeding and picking up my phone at the same time. But I do believe that there is a balanced way to do the work. But you still have to work. You cannot just sunbathe and post pretty pictures on Facebook and you’ll attract clients, you have to make a difference in someone’s life, you have to help people get results. And you have to know your craft really well.
I think this was again very important for me, that I just didn’t call myself a love expert, that I actually knew what I was doing. And that if someone came to me I could actually deliver. So, today if it takes 30,000 euros minimum to work with me one on one, right? So mostly we serve through our group coaching programs. But how could I charge this much money without being sure that if someone came to me and paid that much money, I would actually be able to change their pain point, I would actually be able to give them results?
So I think the hard work plus the importance of getting good at your craft, that’s really important, right? Like everybody, it’s good to be a coach. But I take this profession that Sigrun you and I share very seriously. It has a lot of responsibility behind it. So before we call ourselves a coach, we better be sure that we can help someone and we can really deliver on the promises we are making to people. I think that is very important, especially in this world of online coaching, where I think integrity and credibility becomes extremely important. With just so many people calling themselves coaches, I think it’s very, very important that everybody who takes on their dream of becoming a coach takes their craft seriously, and gets really, really good at what they do.
Sigrun:
Absolutely. So let’s dive into how you actually do this. You said you discovered some secrets or some recipes, you came up with your own after studying this intensely. How would one attract a match? I know there are… I actually have high end clients that are really successful, multiple six figure business and are like, “Sigrun I have not found the love of my life. What do I do?”
Sami Wunder:
Okay, I think it first starts with looking at your belief set, your beliefs, what do you believe to be true? So what happens is that any successful woman who’s got the brains, who’s got the drive, who’s got the ambition, who’s got the money, when she starts to have repeated failures at dating, in a very sneaky way, her mindset starts to get negative around men, and around what is possible for her. And that maybe, just maybe it’s her brains and her success that is pushing them away. So this is a very sneaky limiting belief that a lot of high achieving clients of mine tend to have.
I even helped a supermodel from the UK who came to me saying that men are intimidated by my good looks. So we had to laugh about it. But that became her story because love wasn’t working out for her, men she was dating and they were fizzling out on her. And so she concluded that it was her good looks that things were not working out for her. And so similarly, women who are very successful tend to often because of their bad experiences with men and dating, tend to make some limiting beliefs around, number one, it’s my success and my brains that intimidate men. Okay.
So this is the first belief we have to let go off, because I don’t want you to give up your success. Because if you have that belief, then the automatic conclusion you can make to that is, “Then I must dumb down, and I must give up my dreams. And I can forget about making six figures and multi six figures and I can just be a housewife, or just have an everyday nine-to-five job and then men will be attracted to me.” So because we don’t want you to give up on that success of yours, we must embrace the belief that, firstly, it is possible to have amazing success and have amazing love at the same time.
You have it Sigrun, and I have it too. And so if we can have it, I don’t understand what is so special about us that our clients can’t have it, right? So if we can have it, every woman can have it. And I think it’s very important that we first start schooling ourselves, telling ourselves that it is possible for me to be darn successful, and have an amazing man in my life. So that is number one. Number two is are men really intimidated by your success? I don’t think so. I don’t think so. I think what happens is that when we are very successful, we start to identify a lot with that success. Right? So who, I’m a seven figure business, and who I run a team of so many people, and who… So we start to be unintentionally, very ego led in our interactions with men.
So we show up on a date, and all we can do is try to show off how successful we are and how amazing we are. And I think men don’t get intimidated by that success, they actually don’t connect with that success. Because love happens when connection happens. Right? Love is not an ego driven bond. If you’re with the right man in front of you, honestly, he doesn’t give two hoots about what you make and what you earn. Because as a masculine energy man, he’s able to do that for himself. He’s financially stable, he can get whatever he wants. What he’s truly searching for, is connection, heart to heart.
And for us to be able to have that heart to heart with the men, we need to drop the ego, we need to stop identifying ourselves so much with what we have achieved, and really start showing up as the woman that we are, as that girl that giggles when she sees that funny YouTube video, or that woman who just loses control after two glasses of wine and has to hold her stomach to laugh. Right? That is where connection happens. Vulnerability is where connection happens. And so, men are not intimidated by our brains and our success. Men don’t care about our brains and success, healthy men. They’re indifferent to it. Because connection, it’s not where connection happens, right?
So you can be very, very successful, but if you know how to show up on a date, and not identify so much with what you have achieved, but show up more as the person that you are, as the woman that you are, and be able to connect as the human that you are with another human, yeah, vulnerability, that is where connection happens. And that is where you see that a lot of women who have a lot of success, but they are able to put it aside and they don’t lead with that success. It’s not like you have to dumb down or become less smart or give up what you do. I think it’s about not leading with it.
And it’s also not about not being proud of it because my husband is very proud of my success. I’m sure yours is too, right? But they don’t love us for it. So this means tomorrow if I didn’t have my successful seven figure company, my husband would stop loving me? No, he did not love me for it in the first place. Right? So I think it’s really about just understanding that you can have both, that men are not intimidated by your success. And number two, which I think beautifully builds into number two is the vulnerability and the connection point, which is very deeply ingrained in our feminine energy.
So when we are high achieving women, you know, this was my story all along. I was the pusher, the doer, the action taker, and I still am. I mean, I haven’t left it, I haven’t put it to the side. And I think our empowered masculine energy is a huge part of who we are and why we are and why we are so successful. And it’s because we can do things and we are driven and that’s a great energy to have. But bringing that energy to your love life, bringing that energy to your man is not necessarily your best friend in your romantic interactions. Why? Because a man doesn’t want to come home and hang out with a man. Right? He’s hang out with his colleagues the whole day. He’s been in his head, the whole day. You’ve also been in your head the whole day. You’ve also planned, organized, done things, made things happen the whole day.
And then when you and him come together, his masculine side is craving for that feminine energy, is craving for that softness, that woman who can not just talk, talk, talk, talk but also listen, and engage his heart, share her feelings, be vulnerable be soft, right? This is what the heart of a healthy man is craving. And so, I think it’s a huge topic Sigrun that I teach, I could talk about it the whole day.
Sigrun:
Yeah, I can hear that. We could go on forever. But I guess what another question because my clients have to me personally, “Sigrun you met your husband at the Tony Robbins seminar. Where can I meet someone like that?”
Sami Wunder:
Okay, so again, there’s a huge myth around online dating, sucking. I have to say that out of the 192 client engagements that I have had so far, and we plan to keep it going and keep the numbers increasing, over 60% of my clients have met their husbands, wonderful husband’s online, online dating apps, right? And surprisingly, some really solid men, even on Tinder. Okay. So, again, limiting beliefs, I think it’s so much about, that online dating world is full of crap. I don’t believe that. I believe it’s like the outside world, right? It’s full of douchebags, and it’s full of great people.
And you with your energy and your vibration, you get to pick who you get to be friends with and who you don’t want to be friends with in the real world. It’s something similar online, like when you have your standards, and you present yourself as a top 1% woman, you are going to attract the top 1% men and you don’t have to engage with anyone who’s not a fit for you are not a match for you. So there’s a process to doing that. And we help our clients to do that.
But secondly, I think for your audience, because I also coach entrepreneurs, I can say, going on business conferences. I have a CEO client who was a LinkedIn 2019, top 20 voices on LinkedIn, in the social media world. And she met her husband, they married within six months of getting to know each other, so even faster than me. And she met him on a conference, she met him on a conference. So just going out where I think people who vibe like you, who think like you could be hanging out.
I mean, of course, corona has made that a little more challenging currently. And that is where again, I would come back to, don’t put your love life on a halt, it is still very much possible to meet great men online. And the way we would recommend to do this is by getting to know people through virtual dating right now. So a little bit of what you and I are doing right now Sigrun, virtual getting to know each other. And then you know, when things feel good, and feel safe, and you have an adult conversation about safety measures and everything, then you can also meet for a walk in the park date. Connection can still develop even in these times.
And so for anybody who’s putting their love life on the back burner because of Corona, I can just say Sigrun, I have women who come to me at 50, at 48. And they want to have children, and they want to have family, and they want to get married. And they then feel so desperate. And they feel like life has passed them by. Yeah. And it’s because they were only focusing on their careers, and they kept postponing their private lives.
And I think it’s so important that we don’t… we really look at… I think, again, I keep coming back to you because you’re not just a successful woman, you’re a successful woman with a happy private life. And we both know what it means, how much of a big difference it makes to have a supporting loving partner by your side. Right? So I always say that, my success, at least 40% to 50% of it goes to my husband, because right now he’s sitting with that two month old baby so that I can be on this podcast.
And I believe this is true feminism, right? This is when our men are also participating in bringing up the next generation. And this is the kind of partner I want my clients to attract, I want your clients to attract. And I believe it makes a big difference in the kind of success women can achieve when we have loving men by our side. So it’s so important to not keep postponing this. I think when we fail at love and we fail at dating, it’s so easy to get jaded. It’s easy, so easy just to put it aside and to just like work, work, work, work work. I think it’s so important to focus on your private life and your happiness because it makes such a huge difference in the long run.
Sigrun:
Well, let’s assume that you’ve already met the love of your life and you build your successful business. But then things get sometimes a bit tricky, because it’s an unusual situation that women are more successful as their husbands. What kind of advice can you give there?
Sami Wunder:
Firstly, yes, I get it. I hear a lot of my clients saying that, “I make more money than my husband, he has a nine-to-five job, he doesn’t understand what it means to be an entrepreneur and that I have to at least be on my computer, sometimes at random times, and my client zone is different, and I have to work in the evenings.” So I think the first thing there is to, number one, have compassion for your partner. Because if you’re married to an entrepreneur, I think it’s a different conversation. But if you’re married to a non entrepreneur, I think it’s just really challenging for them to understand your world.
And so instead of assuming that he doesn’t love you, or he doesn’t support your success and your ambition, which I think our fears quickly go into that direction, and say, “Oh, he’s just again, he’s just intimidated by my success, he doesn’t want to support me,” I would really warn you to not go into that direction straight away, instead have compassion for your partner, because an entrepreneur’s journey and an entrepreneur’s lifestyle is something that a nine-to-five person just simply cannot understand. They have to be explained, they have to be educated into it, they have to be sensitized towards it.
So I remember myself, Chris, on our vacation, Chris, especially in 2016, when the business really started to take off, we would go on vacation, and Chris would say, “Why do you have to go on Facebook? It’s our vacation, put the phone aside.” And it was so hard for me to like… I thought, like, “He doesn’t support my success. And he’s so unsupportive.” And then I realized he comes from a past or background where his father was 24/7 available for everyone. And it was a very big trigger for him. He wants his family life to be very separate from his work life. And he wants that when we go on vacation, everything is switched off, and nothing, no devices, nothing is touched.
And I didn’t know that he was coming from that perspective, I did not know that he was coming from that trigger place. I just thought, you don’t understand, that if I just answer one message, somebody’s going to buy a package of 4000 euros straightaway, they’re just waiting for the link, I just have to give them the link, you know. So I think it’s so easy to assume that they’re not supportive, but have compassion and understand that this is a sensitizing process, which is where you have to sit with each other, and you really have to talk, you have to communicate, you have to say, “Honey, I understand this is where you’re coming from. But this is where I’m coming from. And remember, when I’m doing this, I’m not just doing this for myself, I’m doing this for our family. Like, if I win more, it’s not just I win more, it’s our family that wins more, right? So I’m also doing it for us, I’m not just doing it for myself.”
So I think number one, is have compassion for each other because it is a, in German, we say [inaudible 00:34:11] learning process. So, it’s a getting to know process, that this is a very different playing field, and working style versus your partners. I think the second one is understanding that success is not just about the money we make, and the brand we have in the world. Because a lot of the high achieving entrepreneurs and a lot of my high achieving clients tend to think that if they are making more money, their men are contributing less to the family, their men are contributing less, so they are superior, and the man is inferior.
This is such a poison for a relationship, such a big poison. I call it the slow poison though, the relationship killer, right? Because we think that money is the only way to contribute. But the truth is, there are so many different ways in which people contribute to a relationship. Your Man can contribute by looking after the children while you’re working. Your man can still contribute to how he takes care… So when Chris and I built our home, we said it’s our dream home and now we realize we want another dream home. Like that’s another story. For that time where we were, we built our dream home.
And he took over, I maybe pushed in a little bit more money to the process. But he took over all the burdens of managing, delegating, managing the workers, that’s so much masculine energy. So at the end of it, and he was so stressed in the entire process. I could see it was such a big project for us. It’s a really big house that we built for our capacity back then. And he was so stressed and so bogged down and he did everything, project management, financing management, credit management, everything. And so he was contributing so much with his time, his ability, his skills.
And so at the end of it, we did not know who contributed more, because maybe I’ve contributed a little more financially to the project because I run an online business, but he contributed so much with his time, his energy, his management skills, his project skills. And he has a great job with the German space agency still, so he did it while having his amazing job. So I don’t see myself as superior and more successful than my husband. I see my husband as an equally successful man. He’s very successful, by German standards in not having an online business. And he gets a great salary. And I am also not the breadwinner. I don’t call myself the breadwinner, even though I make far loads of money, more money than my husband does. I don’t call myself the breadwinner, because Chris is always pitching in.
So for example, I will pay the business class flight, because I like my comfort now. Yeah, I will pay the business class flight. Chris will pay all the groceries of the household, all the rental bills, all the insurances. So he is still very much involved, he is still very much contributing to our household and our economy. So I think this whole idea that someone is more successful than the other person, unless and until you have that kind of a partner who just doesn’t do anything, right? Like then he’s just sitting on the couch, and playing video games and doing PlayStation, then we need to talk, because that’s not healthy, right?
But what we’re talking about what most women have, is a healthy partner, a loving partner who may or may not make as much money as they make. I mean, that is the gift and the curse of the high achieving woman, right? But it’s important there that we start to go deeper. And we stop defining ourselves as more successful than our men. Just because we make more money, I think there is so much more to success than just the money you make. And there is so many more ways that people can contribute in a loving family versus just through money. And I think recognition of those contributions, recognition of the love, the support, the time your partner gives you so that you could also go out and shine and do your thing. All of this has to play into the dynamic of both people calling themselves successful and contributing to the relationship.
Sigrun:
What a lovely final sentence, Sami. It’s been a joy to talk to you and I’m sure we’ll connect again soon. And hopefully one day in person. What is the best way for people to find you?
Sami Wunder:
Google my name, you just have to google it, right? Because it’s not Wonder, it’s Wunder, it’s a German word, Sigrun would know. S-A-M-I W-U-N-D-E-R. And you can find me on my website samiwunder.com. And we also run a highly engaged private Facebook community called Wunder Divas, where there’s lots of tips and live streams on having successful relationships. You can also follow me on Instagram, Samiwundercoach and get lots of tips and free advice.
Sigrun:
Thank you so much. Thank you for joining the show.
Sami Wunder:
Thank you for having me Sigrun. It’s such a pleasure to connect.
Sigrun:
The Planning Day is coming up on December 10th. Don’t miss this chance to plan 2021 and make it your best year yet. We’re going to plan your sales and marketing launches, budgets, the whole shebang. And make sure you don’t leave any money on the table in 2021. Go to the show notes at sigrun.com/409 to sign up for the Planning Day and there you will also find all the links to Sami Wunder. Thank you for listening to the Sigrun Show. Did you enjoy this episode? Let me know that you listened, by tagging me in your Insta story or Instagram post using my handle, Sigruncom and the hashtag, Sigrunshow. See you in the next episode.